In partnership with Warner Bros. UK
Sinners is the fifth film that American director Ryan Coogler and Swedish composer Ludwig Göransson have made together. The pair have been close pals and collaborators since they met at the University Of Southern California (USC) in the late 2000s – and immediately bonded over music. “You were talking about Swedish music – you were listening to Little Dragon and Lykke Li,” Göransson recalled when he and Coogler sat down for the latest in NME‘s Friends Like These interview series – check out the full chat above.
Since then, their respective careers have gone from strength to strength. Coogler resuscitated the Rocky franchise with 2015’s Creed, then added new depth and diversity to the MCU with 2018’s Black Panther and 2022’s Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. For the former, Göransson won the first of his two Oscars for Best Original Score; the second came in 2024 for his work on Christopher Nolan‘s Oppenheimer.
Sinners is another big cinematic swing: a riveting mix of historical epic, racial allegory and vampire thriller that frequently defies expectations. Michael B. Jordan takes on a dual role as enterprising twins Smoke and Stack, who return to their Southern hometown to open a juke joint where local Black folks can eat, drink and dance to blues music. But on launch night, a group of travelling troubadours led by Remmick (Jack O’Connell) try to bring vocal harmonies – and something much darker – to the party. The film’s glorious, soul-stirring blues music is so integral to the story that Göransson is credited as an executive producer.
In a revealing interview, he and Coogler talk about their formative years at USC, the hidden meaning behind one of Sinners‘ visionary musical moments, and how blues legend Buddy Guy came to make a cameo in the film. Read an abbreviated version below and watch the full conversation in the video above.
Ludwig Göransson: “So, Buddy Guy obviously became involved in this film. I feel like you probably had that in mind while you were writing the script?”
Ryan Coogler: “Yeah, I wrote the movie chiefly inspired by my relationship with my Uncle James. I was very close with him and I loved him very much. He would only go out to see blues musicians – that’s when he would get dressed up real nice and go out. And for the last 10 years of his life, Buddy Guy was kind of the last one left… So I was writing the script thinking ‘Oh, he’ll get a kick out of this’. And then I thought, ‘Man, wouldn’t it be cool if Buddy Guy was actually in the movie?’
“I [only] got him in the movie because his grandkids were Black Panther and Creed fans [though]. They said to him: ‘Hey grandpa, you should be in this.’ He was like: ‘I’ll do whatever you want, because my grandkids are telling me I gotta do this.’”
LG: “And now it’s so crazy that he’s playing and singing a song in your film.”
RC: “And acoustic, too. I ain’t never seen him play acoustic before – I just know him as an electric guitar player. I remember when we handed this [acoustic] guitar to him, people’s breath was held that tight. It was crazy.”
LG: “What’s your favourite piece of music in the film?”
RC: “It’s hard, because to me, it’s all one piece. But I think there’s a hidden message in the movie that I’m in a unique position to appreciate. Your relationship with [your wife] Serena is something I had a front row ticket to: her being a really gifted violinist, you being a gifted guitarist.
“I was seeing you guys build a life together while me and [my wife] Zinzi were building our lives together. And you know, there’s a piece of music in Sinners where it’s this big collision of everything that the movie is about. And it goes from an electric guitar solo by Eric Gales into string musicians trying to emulate the guitar. And it’s just a crazy sound: I don’t think anything’s ever been done like that in a score, but it feels like a love letter to your wife.”
LG: “One of my favourite pieces, which you kind of touched on, is right before that moment, when Eric Gales is playing the guitar. His playing is just insane – he’s playing like his life depends on it.
“But it’s how that’s combined with the visuals in the film: smoke and Michael B. Jordan with a machine gun just peppering [everyone]. As a film composer, I would be kind of afraid to do that [musically]. But you were like, ‘Why don’t you just have the guitar solo there?’ And I was like, ‘Yes, thank god!’”
RC: What do you hope people take away from Sinners, bro?
LG: “Man, I think this movie is so unique… Because I’m a musician, I can count on a few fingers the movies that musically got me to a new place, and how important those movies were to me growing up. And so I hope [Sinners] kind of inspires and moves the needle for young kids to get a certain insight into the deep history of the blues and the impact it had. How about you?”
RC: “I just want people to have a good time at the movies. For me, that supersedes everything, and that desire is what enabled me to be bold. I feel like we’ve developed a relationship with global film-going audiences and we’re relatively young to have done that.
“And so I think it’s kind of incumbent on us to be bold and use that position to show more of ourselves completely. I think the film is very much us: it could only have been made by this particular group, this chosen family, that have made movies together. At this point I think we have to give people a unique, visceral experience when they go to the [movie] theatre.”
‘Sinners’ is in UK cinemas from April 18
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